Standing Committee on Social Issues

Debate resumed from 27 November 2008.

The Hon. TREVOR KHAN [2.44 p.m.]: It is perhaps appropriate that discussion on this report should resume today, 3 June, as on 3 June 1992 the decision in the second Mabo case was delivered by the High Court of Australia—perhaps one of the most important decisions in Australian jurisprudence in the past decade. That decision finally put an end to the doctrine of terra nullius in Australia. In many ways that was a start to the appropriate recognition of the Australian Aboriginal people and their rightful place—their rightful place not only in modern Australia but also in Australia's history. In the context of that important decision it is worth noting that the report acknowledges a significant step forward, at least from the position of the Legislature, in recognising our rights and responsibilities in relation to Aboriginal communities and ensuring the good governance of the State for all its members, including the Aboriginal people.

In that spirit I note that the cooperation by all members of the committee was self-evident. Clearly, there was a recognition by all members that we were joined in a common purpose and, just as importantly, that we were required to behave and cooperate in a way that ensured that. I again, as I did for the interim report, note the chairmanship of the Hon. Ian West and his very considerable and dedicated work in ensuring that the committee members behaved and also in ensuring that the final report was of a high standard.

The final report points the way forward to many positive outcomes that can be achieved. In the hearings which led to the preparation of the final report we saw a repetition of errors that we have all made in the past and which continue to be made that have an adverse effect on the New South Wales Aboriginal community. For example, there was the case study into the recommendations concerning the Redfern-Waterloo needle bus. The committee took evidence at Redfern in regard to a number of issues. One issue that was raised spontaneously was the presence of the needle bus beside a playground. The community complained about the presence of the needle bus and the people who use it, the receiving of needles and, by the very nature of such a facility, as necessary as it may be seen to be, users injecting themselves with drugs in or near the bus and leaving their needles nearby. In 2004 or thereabouts the needle bus had been the subject of recommendations flowing from the riots that occurred in the Redfern-Waterloo area following the unfortunate death of a 17-year-old lad. One recommendation was that the needle bus needed to be moved but it would seem, despite the passing of three or four years, nothing has been done.

Why is that important? It is not important in the sense that the report recommendations were ignored; it is important because the people of the Redfern-Waterloo area, the Aboriginal community of Redfern, are entitled to have their concerns addressed and to be assured that we are interested in and responsive to what they have to say. Naturally, they are entitled to ensure that their children are safe and protected and not exposed to behaviour that is potentially immediately adverse to those children and in the long term certainly is adverse to those children and the community at large. One would have thought that the movement of the needle bus and ensuring that only the correct number of syringes were distributed at any one time could be easily and cheaply put in place and could have a long-term and worthwhile impact on that Aboriginal community. The absolute failure to deal with a recommendation such as that indicates that, despite decisions such as Mabo and despite the work that goes into these reports, the failure to implement simple solutions is a reflection on us all. It is an indication that words are not enough. There needs to be appropriate action, and in some cases at the very least those actions are not taking place at all.

I seek that this Chamber take note of those concerns and ensure that when these reports are prepared, with the best will in the world, the Government has to act. At the very least the Government has to implement the cheap and practical solutions that these reports suggest to ensure that people can maintain a degree of faith in the idea that it is worthwhile coming to committee hearings and taking the time and effort to think about what they should say, knowing that they are participating in a process that produces a positive result. Unfortunately, the outcome relating to the needle bus would tell those people that they may be wasting their time. That is a shame. That is not what we hope will happen with the recommendations from this report.

With regard to the needle bus, as is noted in the recommendations, one of the issues is that we have to be assured that the Department of Aboriginal Affairs is in a position to actually do something—not just to watch and oversight and occasionally appear before committees inquiring into matters affecting the Aboriginal community. We know that on this issue, because of the way the department is viewed, the department has not assisted in the implementation of the recommendations. The department has not ensured that the Department of Health and other government bodies have acted in a way that has protected the Aboriginal community in a practical and realistic sense.

I make the obvious point that significant issues remain to be addressed within the Aboriginal community. Recommendation 3 of this final report is very important and must be implemented by the present Government and future governments. I refer to the need to ensure that the Premier reports to Parliament on the first sitting day of each parliamentary year on the progress the Government has made in closing the gap between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians. Throughout the hearings we saw a number of areas where that gap clearly is significant, and indeed in some cases may be growing. There is no clearer example of that than in the area of education. It is an area that needs constant and adequate attention and constant and effective measurement. It also needs to be constantly and appropriately reported on year by year. The report reflects a great deal of work, effort and cooperation by members of the committee. I congratulate all my fellow committee members on the work they did. I am sure all of us will eagerly await the Government's implementation of the recommendations as soon as possible.

The Hon. MARIE FICARRA [2.54 p.m.]: It is with a sense of hope that the social issues committee presents its final report on overcoming indigenous disadvantage. The fact that life expectancy for indigenous people of Australia is 17 years less than that for non-indigenous people is an indictment on us all. There are many service delivery areas that contribute to this shaming report card—health, housing, education, justice and job opportunities to name but a few.

This final report examined issues such as how best to measure outcomes, coordinate service delivery and establish effective partnerships in service delivery, and the areas of funding, employment, mentoring and training of Aboriginal people. The provision of disability services to indigenous people was found to be still lacking and not culturally appropriate in many circumstances. So many reports have been written and tabled before this one and so many good intentions have been expressed by so many, but even the language used in dealing with this national challenge involves too many negative expressions.

Australians demand better coordination of Federal and State agencies to more effectively use resources and avoid duplication of programs. Nothing annoys indigenous communities more than having their time, effort and community resources wasted in order to fulfil some bureaucrat's performance targets so that a Government agency and its executives can tick off yet another project. Australians remain sceptical that we can ever succeed in closing the gap on life expectancy, infant mortality, literacy and numeracy.

It is our responsibility as legislators to hold the Government accountable regarding the adoption of, and necessary action in relation to, this committee's recommendations. We know we should consult more effectively with those communities affected, make sensible and supported recommendations and monitor Government implementation and financing. Fewer words, more transparency and increased levels of genuine engagement will result in more targeted action. It is pleasing to note in the Government's response to our report's recommendations that many have been supported or partially supported. My fellow committee members and I, the community at large and, importantly, local indigenous communities throughout New South Wales will judge the future progress of this Government with regard to consultation and implementation. Governments and their agencies, Federal and State, need to be held accountable for their performance.

Let us strengthen the Aboriginal community's capacity to tell us what they believe needs to be done and then work with them to ensure it is done. Mr Jack Beatson, chief executive officer of the Birpai Aboriginal Land Council, said, "We discovered people are saying that when agencies come into the communities they shop around until they get the answer they want to deliver the program they want." We must empower Aboriginal communities, their elders and leaders to have their opinions and guidance respected and acted upon. Their feedback must be monitored and acted upon so that service delivery, infrastructure planning and ongoing management hit the mark.

Communication between Government and Aboriginal communities needs improvement, and this was apparent throughout our inquiry. A worrying example of this for me and the Hon. Trevor Khan, who has just spoken on this issue, was the concern expressed by indigenous elders in relation to the needle exchange program in Redfern, specifically the inappropriate location of the mobile needle and syringe van within close proximity to a children's playground. Concerns were expressed and typical bureaucratic answers were received, instead of genuine dialogue with the community leaders who expressed their concerns to our committee in the first place. More of the same responses repeated over many years wear down the energy levels of indigenous community leaders. It is time to hold accountable the senior managers involved in these poor communicative processes.

Time and again there is a lack of respect and a lack of sincere and appropriate dialogue. By that I do not mean bureaucrat friendly dialogue; I mean communication that reaches community elders and leaders in a manner that they value, with timely follow-up action. Genuine partnerships involve governments working with Aboriginal people, not doing things to Aboriginal people. The committee heard much evidence in the local communities to which it travelled that Commonwealth and State government agencies did not want to sit at the table as equals with Aboriginal people and listen to them to determine the priority areas for their communities. There is a belief that government agencies are not held accountable for the services they deliver or fail to deliver to their communities. Advice shopping, where agencies and bureaucrats come into communities and shop around until they get the answer that they want to deliver the program they want, not necessarily what the local community needs, was a complaint frequently heard by the committee.

We heard that people charged with writing policy for Aboriginal people had not engaged with the communities for whom they were writing policy. Why are communities, both indigenous and non-indigenous, sceptical of inquiry after inquiry, with apologies followed by more inquiries producing more reports but achieving little change in the speed and effectiveness of outcomes for indigenous communities? "Consultation fatigue" was an expression that the committee heard time and again from indigenous leaders and non-indigenous witnesses who worked closely with community elders. Mr Patrick Dobson, a proud Yawuru man, respected indigenous activist and recipient of the 2008 Sydney Peace Prize, summed it up quite clearly when he urged the Commonwealth Government and all State governments to move beyond symbolism to a framework that ensures accountability for indigenous justice—no more and no less than that enjoyed by non-indigenous persons.

The committee made 23 recommendations on a variety of areas that are in need of attention, such as measuring outcomes, coordinating service delivery, partnership in service delivery, funding, employment, mentoring and training of Aboriginal people. The committee received 105 submissions, including 16 supplementary submissions and conducted 13 public hearings, two public forums, three roundtable discussions, and three informal discussion sessions. In toto the committee heard formal evidence from 226 inquiry participants.

In conclusion, I thank the dedicated and professional committee secretariat for their ongoing assistance throughout the many months of this inquiry and the many regional and rural community visits of great value in formulating our recommendations. I thank my fellow committee members and, in particular, the ever-accommodating and patient committee chair, the Hon. Ian West, who presided over an eclectic but resourceful and cooperative group of members of the Legislative Council. We look to the future with honest intent and solid political commitment to engage Aboriginal communities in true, respectful, equal partnership, and to strengthen Aboriginal communities. I quote Ms Robyn Kruk, the former Director General of the New South Wales Department of Premier and Cabinet—

The Hon. Trevor Khan: A very good one too.

The Hon. MARIE FICARRA: As the Hon. Trevor Khan interjected, Ms Robyn Kruk was a good director general. She said that Aboriginal communities "tell you what they believe needs to be done and then work with you to make sure it is done". That is the approach that all governments should take, and that is the only way we will close the gap between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians.

Dr JOHN KAYE [3.03 p.m.]: I commend to the House the report of the Standing Committee on Social Issues entitled "Overcoming Indigenous Disadvantage in New South Wales." For me, it was a transformational experience to be exposed to the lives of so many indigenous Australians; to have taken out of the realm of theory and put into the realm of reality the level of disadvantage suffered by Aboriginal communities around New South Wales; to understand the consequences of that not only for individuals but also for community structures; to understand the level of debt that non-Aboriginal Australia has carried with it for 210 years; and the urgency of the task of addressing those needs.

That having been said, I suggest that if we look back over the past 40 years, we will find that substantial progress has been made towards reconciliation and Australian nationhood, which can follow only when we fully recognise the injustices done to Aboriginal people and the important part that they play in forming our national identity and our national psyche. I commend this important inquiry into indigenous disadvantage—a key theme in understanding where this nation needs to go. This report builds on the spirit and best traditions of Australia concerned about Aboriginal disadvantage and it asks what needs to be done in New South Wales by the New South Wales Government.

The inquiry had a number of high and low points, but the pinnacle of those high points related to the successful programs. One program that sticks in my mind and in the minds of my colleagues was Tirkandi Inaburra, a program in the Riverina for Aboriginal adolescent males at risk of adverse interaction with the criminal justice system. That program, which has achieved an enormous success rate, is run largely by Aboriginal people, was initiated by Aboriginal communities, and is a beacon for what communities can do when they are empowered. A large number of Aboriginal people have a sense of seizing control—taking back that which has been lost and of making their lives and their communities whole again. There is no finer example of that than Tirkandi Inaburra.

The Hon. Tony Catanzariti: Hear! Hear!

Dr JOHN KAYE: I note the support from Mr Tony Catanzariti, as Tirkandi Inaburra is located in his area. Mr Tony Catanzariti would be well aware of that enormously successful program and of the uplifting experience that one gains after visiting the area. With the help of New South Wales Government funding Aboriginal communities are mending the damage done by 210 years of dispossession, building a sense of self-awareness and empowerment and, most importantly, building a sense of confidence in the future. Those are the high points. Unfortunately, the low points are the massive amounts of dysfunctionality that still exist in communities, in part driven by a loss of faith in the future and a loss of faith in the partnership with government to solve the problems ahead.

It drove home to all members on the committee the enormous and challenging task ahead for Aboriginal reconciliation, Aboriginal communities and all people in New South Wales. A number of lessons were learnt from those interactions and from a number of experts and activists. I place on the record my thanks to those who gave of their time to the committee and who shared in their understanding of Aboriginal issues. The biggest lesson that I learnt was the need to prioritise Aboriginal disadvantage because of the appalling depth of the problem and the need to restore faith amongst Aboriginal communities in the capacity of government to effect change.

Some of the recommendations refer to the need for the Premier to report to Parliament on an annual basis on the progress that has been achieved, and to raise the Two Ways Together Program to the required level in the State Plan. These programs are not just programs of symbolic importance; they will work to maintain a political focus on the problems and maintain pressure on governments and on all politicians to resolve these issues. The second major lesson to be learnt is the need to repair relationships between governments and Aboriginal communities. This is about restoring trust and confidence that governments are prepared to work with communities in partnership—not in a patronising old-fashioned delivery of services, but as partners in solving community problems.

The recommendations that addressed that issue were the doubling of person hours in regional community offices from 40 people at half time to 40 people at full time and, most importantly, to take all successful pilot programs and guarantee them three to five years of funding to stop the bleeding of goodwill that confronts Aboriginal communities when a successful pilot program is abandoned and is leading nowhere. The committee also recommended finalisation of the partnership agreements for Murdi Paaki and elevation of the role of the Department of Aboriginal Affairs as well as Aboriginal objectives in all departments. The third set of lessons is about empowering communities to make decisions in partnership. There were various recommendations regarding flexibility of government programs to build internal strength and resilience.

The fourth set of lessons is the need to elevate respect for Aboriginal culture, both within indigenous and non-indigenous communities. There are also a number of recommendations relating to language programs, particularly in-service language programs for teachers, comparative studies of Australian history, and a review of curriculum. Those lessons are not just important individually but also collectively to create a renewed sense of commitment to address Aboriginal disadvantage. I will briefly quote from a letter that committee members received from the Hornsby Area Residents for Reconciliation. Mr Bob White stated strong support for the committee's recommendations. In particular he stated:

The most challenging reforms advocated in this report concern the building of genuine partnerships between government and Indigenous communities and the strengthening of cultural resilience in Indigenous communities. The building of genuine partnerships with Indigenous communities requires a major transformation in the culture of government departments and agencies in NSW. Mandating the use of certain structures and processes for the purposes of consultation will not be effective unless there is a serious and genuine commitment to making these structures and processes work. This requires a transformation that has to start at the top.

I could not agree more with Mr White and the Hornsby Area Residents for Reconciliation. I conclude my remarks by observing the contrast between the spirit in which this report was written and that in which the Northern Territory intervention was undertaken. The intervention was initiated by the Howard Government and is continued by the current Rudd Government. The intervention is based on the suspension of the Racial Discrimination Act and on an appalling lack of consultation with local communities, and a lack of evidence. It is based on a condescending and patronising attitude towards the Aboriginal community and on a homogeneous view of communities that fails to identify the diversity within and between those communities. It is based on taking away the dignity of Aboriginal people, Aboriginal families and Aboriginal communities.

I am proud to say that the Standing Committee on Social Issues report entitled "Overcoming Indigenous Disadvantage in New South Wales" avoided all those errors and instead focused on evidence, assessment and dignity and on building Aboriginal communities. I pay tribute to my colleagues who are members of the committee. We come from a very diverse and, to use the adjective used by the Hon. Trevor Khan, a very eclectic set of political views.

The Hon. Marie Ficarra: No, I said "eclectic".

Dr JOHN KAYE: In either case, I pay tribute to all my colleagues in the inquiry for the way in which we were able to work together and apply diverse political perspectives to resolving the problems. I particularly pay tribute to the committee chair, the Hon. Ian West, or "Westie", as we referred to him. "Westie" brought a level of calm and dignity to very difficult situations. He inspired confidence not only in-house but also in the communities with whom we were consulting. Finally I thank the quite remarkable Rachel Simpson, Simon Johnston, Glenda Baker, Lynn Race, Victoria Pymm, Teresa Robinson and Elizabeth Galton, who put in remarkable hours and who not only looked after us but also, from my point of view anyway, coordinated one of the most remarkable experiences of my parliamentary life and produced an outstanding report.

The Hon. MICHAEL VEITCH [3.13 p.m.]: It is with pleasure that I participate in this take-note debate on the final report by the Standing Committee on Social Issues entitled "Overcoming Indigenous Disadvantage in New South Wales". As members have heard, a very thorough inquiry led to the production of the report we are discussing. The committee received 105 submissions, including 16 supplementary submissions, and conducted 13 public hearings, two public forums, three roundtable discussions and three informal discussion sessions, some of which were quite difficult to chair. I congratulate the chair of the committee, the Hon. Ian West, because some of the informal sessions were quite difficult. At the conclusion of those sessions, all members of the committee were quite grateful for the way in which he had handled the proceedings.

To hear a wide range of views from a wide range of people the committee visited Bidwell, Redfern and some of the regional areas of New South Wales, Armidale, Broken Hill, Griffith, Kempsey, Dubbo and Nowra. In total, the committee heard formal evidence from 226 inquiry participants. I thank my fellow committee members for the cooperative and compassionate manner in which they conducted themselves during the inquiry. At times the inquiry was quite difficult, and some evidence was quite emotive. The evidence we witnessed being given was powerful. Previous conceptions that may have been held by committee members were challenged and often changed because of the evidence the committee received. Overcoming Aboriginal disadvantage is an issue that overrides and overpowers the political chasm that on occasions divides this Chamber. In particular I draw to the attention of the House recommendation 19, which states:

That the NSW Department of Education and Training, in collaboration with the Aboriginal Education Consultative Group, review, and amend as required, the current school curriculum and associated materials to ensure that the teaching of the history of colonisation in Australia includes a recognition of prior occupation and a rejection of terra nullius.

As Richard Bach once said, "You teach best what you most need to learn." Understanding our past properly is the only way we can move forward as a country. If our children are learning the whole truth about Australia's colonisation, perhaps it will instil within them a conviction to never allow such awful social injustice to occur again and will foster a welcoming and understanding attitude to help rebuild Aboriginal culture. The incorporation of indigenous language in the curriculum is very important because it is one of the best methods by which to appreciate Aboriginal culture. It will make our education system more accessible to Aboriginal people and will allow them to reclaim the past and tell their story their way.

Another prominent thread of the report is the necessity to overcome the mental divide of our country. We need to stop looking at our nation and States in terms of black and white, indigenous or non-indigenous, for it is through recognition that we will all take a step forward. I will quote from the report to highlight the effectiveness of this recommendation. Ms Colleen Campbell, who teaches her language at TAFE, said:

Being able to speak my grandfather's language has given me not only pride in myself as an Aboriginal person but also as a member of the Dunghutti nation. It gives me my own identity. I believe that Aboriginal languages are the way for my people to gain some dignity and pride and their special identity and sense of belonging.

Her key words are "dignity", "pride", "special identity" and "belonging". For all intents and purposes, that is what this report and its recommendations attempt to achieve for Aboriginal people. Integral to the success of the recommendation I have already referred to is recommendation 20, which states:

That the NSW Government provide ongoing support and resources for continuing Indigenous language programs, recording of oral histories and the compilation of Indigenous dictionaries. The Premier should take ownership of this opportunity to raise the profile of Indigenous issues and emphasise the importance placed on Indigenous languages and culture by the NSW Government.

By recognising that aim in State Plan Priority F1, which is entitled "Improving health, education and social outcomes for Aboriginal people", and by recognising that European colonisation of Australia was the basis for the systemised oppression of Aboriginal people and loss of Aboriginal language and culture through policies that broke up community and families, the New South Wales Labor Government is leading by example through rectification of that wrong. The pride felt by Colleen Campbell when she taught her language is a great example of how important the Building Community Resilience strategies are. By putting resources into reviving what Aboriginal people lost, we can take a very firm first step on the road to reconciliation.

I endorse what has been said by previous speakers during the debate. I thank the secretariat, in particular Rachel Simpson, Simon Johnston, Glenda Baker, Lynn Race, Victoria Pymm, Teresa Robinson and Elizabeth Galton, as well as Emilia Lukeman and Chelsea Perry from Macquarie University, who assisted at some stage. I have to say that parliamentary inquiries deal with a wealth of information. That the secretariat drills down to the issues arising from the information the committee receives and distils that into such a substantive report just amazes me. But of course that could not be done without Hansard taking down the many words that we speak and hear. Some of the forums for this inquiry must have made it extremely difficult for Hansard to report the proceedings. Indeed, in one venue committee members struggled to hear what was being said. How the Hansard reporters managed to get it all on record is beyond me. However, I congratulate them on such a fine effort.

I thank honourable members involved with this committee. Most importantly, I thank those who contributed, whether as a result of presenting submissions, giving formal evidence, or personally attending the public forums. Their contributions provided the result that we are debating today. I restate my commitment to this report and encourage all honourable members to do so as well, because although this is a good report on paper it is beholden on all of us to make it an outstanding report in practice.

Reverend the Hon. FRED NILE [3.20 p.m.]: I support the Standing Committee on Social Issues report entitled "Overcoming Indigenous Disadvantage in New South Wales: Final Report" and commend its recommendations. In particular, I commend recommendation 7, which states:

That NSW Government agencies engage Aboriginal communities to identify local problems and solutions, and tailor programs delivered in a community accordingly.

Similarly, recommendation 23 seeks to involve the indigenous community in solving some of the problems. It states:

That the NSW Government work collaboratively to develop and support policies and programs with the Australian Government which address Indigenous disadvantage in urban, regional and remote areas that are long-term, sustainable, and outlast the political cycle.

The report is objective in that on page 16, under the heading "Case study: Inquiry into issues relating to Redfern Waterloo recommendations concerning the 'Needle Bus'", it states:

2.53 In its Interim Report in August 2004 the Committee also recommended that the Mobile Needle and Syringe Van (Needle Bus) be moved from its current location, within the community and beside a children's playground, and a strictly imposed limit placed on the number of needles distributed.

2.54 the government stated that the "Mobile Needle and Syringe Van will close as soon as the community health facility opens"

The report then indicates that no such community health facility was built or opened, and therefore the needle bus continued its operations. The report further states:

However, when local residents were asked what they would like to see come out of this Inquiry, Mr Michael Mundine, CEO of the Aboriginal Housing Company replied 'NSW Health removal of the Needle Bus'. Given the continued community concern regarding the location of the bus the need for discussions and an ultimate solution remains.

The indigenous community is frustrated because although inquiries are held, evidence given and noted, and recommendations are made, they are not acted on. Sometimes the impression given is that we are being patronising; we say we agree with them but in fact all they hear is rhetoric, without action. I am pleased that the committee was courageous enough to include that matter in the report. Obviously, it is criticism of not only the Department of Health and its operations but also the Government, because NSW Health is a government department. The Government should have intervened and directed that the committee's recommendations be implemented, not given token consideration.

I have visited The Block many times, and I have had discussions with Mick Mundine about the needle bus and his desire to rebuild The Block and make it a community of which the indigenous people can be proud. Sadly, there has been little progress on the project, although considerable time and energy has been spent on it. I simply urge the Government to take note of, and implement, the clear recommendations made by indigenous people, otherwise the indigenous people will remain frustrated. What is happening in Queensland clearly illustrates my point. Some members mentioned the intervention in the Northern Territory. I am concerned about reports from Queensland that the Bligh Government decided unilaterally to declare what I understand are called "wild rivers", which will stop Aboriginal people from using the rivers to improve their economic situation. There has been no consultation or feedback.

Noel Pearson has strongly opposed the decision, which will have a negative effect on Aboriginal communities in northern Queensland. Indeed, he has been forced to withdraw his cooperation with the Queensland Labor Government. Instead of cooperation and progress, there is now division between the State Government and Aboriginal leadership. That will not help anyone, particularly the Aboriginal people who need governments to provide opportunities, not restrictions. All governments, both Federal and State, need to be consistent about engaging Aboriginal communities and, by implication, listening to them and taking action.

Debate adjourned on motion by the Hon. Don Harwin and set down as an order of the day for a future day.