Dr REFSHAUGE (Marrickville - Deputy Premier, Minister for Health, and Minister for Aboriginal Affairs) [4.06]: I move:

That this House condemns the Leader of the Opposition and the member for North Shore over their false claims of 30 deaths at Royal North Shore Hospital and other misleading and unsubstantiated claims about the public hospital system.

Parliament is about robust political debate. It is a forum for accurate and intelligent debate. Parliament is not a place for lies and scaremongering. Last week the Leader of the Opposition lied and used scaremongering tactics. The shadow minister for health joined her leader in lying to this House. It was a lie which sought not only to mislead this House but to scare patients in Royal North Shore Hospital and to score some cheap political points. It was a lie that raised the anxiety levels of families and friends who are already concerned that their loved ones are sick. Robust parliamentary debate is about raising alternatives. To lie in this House and to continue that lie beyond the House is nothing short of cowardice.

Page 5436

Recent scaremongering by the Leader of the Opposition and the honourable member for North Shore highlights only the Opposition's total lack of health policy. Last week the Leader of the Opposition put to the House one of the strongest arguments to date as to why he should never become the Premier of New South Wales. Equally eloquent was the case put by the honourable member for North Shore as to why she would never be able to cope with ministerial responsibility, let alone a portfolio as large and important as health. What a team they make: one is a failed health Minister and the other is a completely incompetent shadow minister. If only their Laurel and Hardy act were that funny. This is the Opposition team which suggests to the people of New South Wales that it could govern this State. That is quite scary. The reality is that the Leader of the Opposition and the honourable member for North Shore have betrayed their constituents; they have cast aside the health and welfare of thousands of patients for the sake of a cheap media stunt. When everything they claimed about Royal North Shore Hospital has been proven to be false, they now continue to refuse to apologise and withdraw their untruths. In the wash-up of last week's disastrous performance, the Leader of the Opposition has instead turned on one of his so-called star performers. In his column in today's Sydney Morning Herald David Humphries said:

It earned Skinner a reprimand from the office of an infuriated Opposition Leader, Peter Collins, but the damage to Coalition credibility had been done.

Not only did the Leader of the Opposition criticise and reprimand the honourable member for North Shore, but he also had his media advisers leak it to the press gallery. That is the sort of support he gives to his own team. [Quorum formed.]

The Leader of the Opposition should have sacked the honourable member for North Shore after her humiliating confession that she had made her allegations about the haematology unit and deaths at the hospital after hearing from a television journalist who had talked to an unidentified source. But the Leader of the Opposition is in no position, of course, to sack someone who so misguidedly followed the example he set. Who could ever forget the extravaganza of 12 April when the Leader of the Opposition unveiled surprise new waiting list data amidst great fanfare?

Striding triumphantly into the press gallery, the Leader of the Opposition said that he had the information that would lay waste to the Carr Government's achievements of a 50 per cent reduction in waiting lists. According to the Leader of the Opposition he had national figures which showed that waiting lists in New South Wales stood at 43,129 in December 1995, rather than at 19,700 which the Carr Government had claimed - and, of course, achieved. If only the Leader of the Opposition learned how to read when he learned how to tell the time. The Institute of Health and Welfare data that he so triumphantly professed related to December 1995 in fact related to June 1995.

The Leader of the Opposition quoted the wrong figures. Not only that, the figures that he quoted confirmed what the Government's figures had shown, that in June 1995 there was a reduction - not a large reduction, but a reduction - in the waiting list figures. The Government was on track in June and the Opposition, obviously thinking it had caught the Government out, again misled the people of New South Wales. What did the Leader of the Opposition do? Did he apologise? No, he had all of the media lined up for the afternoon talkback programs but he arranged for his press secretary to ring and say that he had rapidly developed a touch of laryngitis and could not appear on the programs. The Leader of the Opposition knows that he stuffed it up, he knows that he misled the people of New South Wales and he knows that he ran away because he could not face the music.

Mrs Skinner: Duplicitous and dishonest!

Dr REFSHAUGE: As the honourable member for North Shore said, he was dishonest! Who could forget the story of only a couple of weeks ago about the notorious locked wards at Westmead Hospital? Once again the Leader of the Opposition shouted from the rooftops that he had the Government on the ropes. "Shock, horror," he breathlessly exclaimed as he unveiled photographs of locked wards at Westmead Hospital. It is a pity that he did not speak to the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, because he was the one who ordered that those wards be locked. Talk about disarray in the Opposition; talk about an unconvincing Opposition. It is an Opposition that can never get it right, an Opposition that lies and misleads this House. Those paediatric wards at Westmead Hospital were closed, quite rightly so, because they were moved to the New Children's Hospital.

The honourable member for North Shore is grinning like a cheshire cat but when one looks through her parliamentary record and her record before she entered Parliament one discovers that, for many years, the honourable member was at the rostrum club learning public speaking. I assure honourable members that they taught her how to speak loudly but they did not teach her how to tell the truth. It is about time the Opposition came clean and "fessed up" to the people of New South Wales. All Opposition members do is walk out on the street, listen to Chicken Little telling them that the sky is falling, and then come in here and say that the sky is falling. Honourable members will recall the Leader of the Opposition getting the figures wrong about waiting lists; they will recall the honourable member for North Shore talking about the patient who died in the back of an ambulance. The honourable member sits opposite, grinning, but at a cocktail party - no wonder she is grinning, she has been to more cocktail parties - said that a patient had died in the back of an ambulance. She is happy to keep on saying that that was the case.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Minister will direct his comments through the Chair, rather than across the Chamber.

Page 5437

Dr REFSHAUGE: The honourable member for North Shore said that a patient died in an ambulance, as a result -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for North Shore will have a chance to refute these comments.

Dr REFSHAUGE: The Government examined thousands of records and there was not one indication to that effect. There is no truth at all in what the honourable member said but I have never heard her say she is sorry. She and I appeared on a recent statewide television program and the honourable member said, "If I've got it wrong, I'll apologise." She produced no evidence of such a case; when will she going to apologise? Not only has she lied to this House but she has said that if there is no evidence she will apologise.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for North Shore will have an opportunity to reply.

Dr REFSHAUGE: That shows what kind of person she is. Last week she made an unbelievable and irresponsible attack on the staff of Lismore Hospital. The Northern Star of Saturday stated that her allegations were baseless, that the staff are angry and that it was a slur by the honourable member for North Shore on Lismore Hospital.

Mrs Skinner: They got it wrong.

Dr REFSHAUGE: The honourable member said that they got it wrong. She said that the high-dependency unit had been closed, that it had been downgraded. There was no high-dependency unit; they never had one. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition knows that, because he said that it would not go ahead. He spiked it. The honourable member for North Shore has traduced the reputation of the hardworking nurses at Lismore Hospital. No wonder the local newspaper editorial stated that she is the one who should go. There is no credibility in the Opposition and the Opposition has no policies. The people of New South Wales have no respect for the Opposition because the only policy that the honourable member for North Shore espoused in respect of health was, "If you are sick, do not call an ambulance." That is the most dangerous policy I have ever heard. It is no wonder the people do not listen to the honourable member.

Mr COLLINS (Willoughby - Leader of the Opposition) [4.16]: There it is. There is the performance from the man that no-one in this State believes. No-one in New South Wales believes the Minister for Health. He is going to be hung out to dry by his party. I predict now that he will be lucky to survive the year as health Minister because his colleagues are trying to cut him down; they are trying to get rid of him. They know that Labor Party polling shows that the Minister is one of the weak points in the Carr Government - he is one of a number, I might add, but he tops the list in ALP polling for weak Ministers, vulnerable areas and areas where the Labor Party will be done like a dinner at the 1999 State election. I propose a short amendment to the motion. I move:

That the motion be amended by leaving out all words after the word "House" with a view to inserting instead the following:

(1) Censures the Deputy Premier and Minister for Health for:

(a) failing to act on warnings by two haematology experts that patients, including transplant recipients, are being dangerously exposed to the aspergillus fungus at Royal North Shore Hospital because financial constraints have prevented ongoing maintenance of vital airconditioning ducts;

(b) failing to provide sufficient funds to Royal North Shore Hospital to enable them to fund all their infection control priorities; and

(2) Calls on the Minister to undertake an urgent review into the infection control priorities of Royal North Shore Hospital and pay for the cleaning of the airconditioning ducts at the hospital.

The Opposition has moved the amendment because the Minister for Health stands condemned, and deserves to be censured, for cutting the health budget and failing to take responsibility for his actions. Everyone knows that this Minister has been responsible for major cuts to the health budget, which is not maintaining pace with its real cost of operation. That is why there is a meltdown in the New South Wales public hospital system. The Minister for Health stands condemned for completely disregarding the warnings of two haematology experts that patients' lives are at risk because of funding cuts. It is not a case of the Opposition making up claims; here I have two letters from the department of haematology and transfusion medicine of the Royal North Shore Hospital, written on the letterhead of Dr James P. Isbister.

The information comes direct from the hospital and is the basis of the Opposition's claims against the Minister, claims that he refuses to acknowledge in any way. The Minister for Health has made no admission about the number of deaths that have occurred as a result of the negligence of the Carr Government and its deliberate cuts to infection control budgets. It is clear that the Minister will avoid coming to grips with the issue for as long as he possibly can. I wonder whether the Minister has seen the letter dated 19 September 1996 from Dr James Isbister, the head of the Royal North Shore Hospital department of haematology, to the Director of Medical and Clinical Services, Dr Kim Hill. I have a challenge for the Minister for Health: I seek the leave of the House to table the letter of Dr James Isbister dated 19 September and the letter dated 3 October 1996.

Leave not granted.

There it is, a cover-up. The Minister is not game to face the truth. He says no to the tabling of two letters from his own department. Those letters
Page 5438
condemn him and the Carr Government for the Government's delinquent attitude towards infection control in New South Wales public hospitals, including one of the flagship hospitals of this State, the Royal North Shore Hospital. The warnings come not from the Opposition, not from politicians, but from doctors, health experts, people who know, people who are involved. As a former Minister for Health, I find it extraordinary that the Carr Government would totally disregard a doctor's patient safety concerns. But I never thought I would see the day when a Minister for Health dismisses the claims of not one but two doctors who raise valid concerns about the health of patients.

There has been not a word from the Minister for Health since Dr Isbister's warning that he "cannot ensure the safety of patients". There was not a word from the Minister for Health - and I would have to use the term "health" loosely - when the same doctor, in a letter the Minister personally received, said that a cloud of dust fell "from the airconditioning system on to one of the transplant patients, in an isolation room". That is on the official record, and it is what the Minister for Health is trying to prevent from going on the official record of the Parliament. Silence, in the face of accusations that financial constraints have prevented the proper maintenance of vital equipment, is an outrage.

It is worth bearing in mind the gravity of the words used by Dr Isbister. He employs terms such as "urgency", "serious", "feared complications" and "critical incident". The Minister is condemned for his silence after Dr Isbister wrote to him, "If we start seeing deaths from aspergillus . . . it could receive intense publicity and questions will be asked as to why action wasn't taken when various critical incidents were reported." According to the doctors of the haematology ward, patients did die. And it is known that the Minister has not done anything - he has admitted as much. Dr Christopher Arthur, the hospital's senior staff specialist in the haematology ward, said last week that the aspergillus infection had been a major contributing factor in the deaths of patients. I repeat - a major contributing factor in the deaths of patients. And that from a doctor who treated those patients - while the Minister was in his office, blissfully unaware. There has been no admission from the Minister that those deaths occurred.

This is the kind of thing that one cannot believe in a modern society in which we are supposed to have freedom of information and some degree of public candour and honesty. But not from this Minister and not from this Government. The Minister has made the concession that transplant patients and those with suppressed immune systems require sterile environments to make their recovery. Instead, the Minister wheeled out the head of the hospital, although the Minister did not give him the courtesy of seeing Dr Isbister's letter. According to the Daily Telegraph, Dr Gavin Frost said that a strain of aspergillus fungus was found in the airconditioning unit but no patient had died as a result of the infection and that the airconditioning unit outside the haematology ward had been cleaned.

The admission by Dr Frost raises a number of questions that the Minister has in no way answered. Why was the aspergillus fungus found at all when haematology wards are supposed to be sterile environments? Why, if patients' lives were not at risk - as the Minister asserts - was the airconditioning system outside the ward cleaned at all? Why, if the fungus did pose an infection risk, was the ward itself not cleaned? Why is the head of the haematology ward clearly at odds with the executive director of the hospital over the extent of the risk and the cause of death of patients? Instead of answering such vital questions, the Minister turns his back on the problem. He is not even prepared to look us in the eye here in the Chamber.

The people of New South Wales demand and require better from the Minister and, preferably, a better Minister from the Government. They demand a health Minister who responds to concerns brought by health professionals, somebody who will admit to the problems raised by doctors such as those to whom I have referred. Those doctors gave the Government a chance to fix the problem but the Government has not done so. The former Government formulated some of the strictest infection control guidelines in this country. At the time it was not envisaged that any government such as the Carr Government would refuse to fund those guidelines.

The guidelines are designed to protect patients' lives and to protect the reputation of the public hospital system. They are the guidelines that this cynical Government has been prepared to ditch in the names of financial expediency, budget cuts and a so-called balanced budget by a shonky Treasurer who cannot make his numbers add up. This is nothing less than a blistering indictment of the Carr Government. The Minister's prevarication and his attempt to turn his back on the issue will fail. The people know that he has failed this State and the patients of the State. The Minister for Health, through his actions and his inaction, has put at risk the lives of patients.

Mr MILLS (Wallsend) [4.26]: The Leader of the Opposition referred to "silence in the face of accusations" on the part of the Minister for Health. By using that phrase, he dug his own ditch. The Leader of the Opposition, in moving this amendment and in his contribution to the debate, has not defended himself against the charges of false claims of 30 deaths contained in the urgency motion moved by the Deputy Premier, Minister for Health, and Minister for Aboriginal Affairs. The Leader of the Opposition, by failing to defend himself, has tacitly admitted that he and the shadow minister for health, who is now leaving the Chamber, told lies last week.

Page 5439

Last week the honourable member for North Shore displayed outrageous contempt for the patients of the Royal North Shore Hospital. She showed that she is prepared more to exploit the emotions of very sick patients for cheap political point scoring than to tell the truth. The honourable member for North Shore sought to scare seriously ill patients at the Royal North Shore Hospital by spreading false accusations about their safety. The cynicism of the honourable member for North Shore knows no bounds. It is unfortunate that her ability to distort the facts also knows no bounds. Her ability to cry wolf at media conferences is without precedent.

On 16 September this year the honourable member for North Shore made the following claims about St George, Wollongong and Sutherland hospitals. This time she referred to hospitals on the south side of the harbour. According to the honourable member for North Shore a total of 21 beds were to go and 30 staff were to be cut in moves which would seriously affect obstetric and gynaecological services at all three hospitals. Surprise, surprise, surprise! Everything the member claimed was wrong. There are no plans to cut obstetric and/or gynaecological services at Sutherland, St George or Wollongong hospitals. No beds have been cut and no staff have been lost from these hospitals. That was just another rumour from the office of the Opposition spokesperson on health. We should not be surprised at the propensity of the honourable member for North Shore to start rumours.

In 1994 she laid the foundations for her political career. In a debate in this House the honourable member told of how easy it is to start a rumour about the closure of health services. At that time she even threatened to start a rumour that the Australian Labor Party was going to close Royal North Shore Hospital. Health is too important an issue to be trivialised by the antics of the honourable member for North Shore. It is most unfortunate for the people of New South Wales that the threats made by her in 1994 were not hollow. Since being appointed Opposition health spokesperson in 1995 she has had the rumour mill working overtime. On 5 March this year she claimed that the Illawarra Area Health Service had gone broke. She took to the airwaves on Illawarra radio to say that medical equipment was being repossessed.

No medical equipment from Illawarra Area Health Service has been repossessed. However, I can inform the House that a microscope was returned to the manufacturer by the Illawarra Regional Hospital. The reason? It did not meet the needs of the hospital. That incident can hardly be described as repossession of hospital equipment - even by people with an overfertile imagination. The truth is that the microscope was not suitable to needs. Health is a serious issue and as elected representatives we have an incumbent responsibility to ensure that our public comments as members do not cause needless anxiety in the community. Last week the Leader of the Opposition and the honourable member for North Shore showed they are incapable of exercising that responsibility. They should both remember what happened to the boy who cried wolf: no-one ever listened to him again. I turn to the Leader of the Opposition. In the Newcastle Herald of Tuesday, 10 September, an article stated:

Assertions by the Leader of the NSW Opposition, Mr Peter Collins, that the Hunter Area Health Service . . . was $12 million over-budget were "unbelievably wrong", the service's chief executive officer, Dr Tim Smyth, said yesterday.

"The area health service is liquid," Dr Smyth said. "It has money in the bank and it is paying its bills."

Mr Collins made his statement during a news conference in which he said the extra $6 million promised by the State Government . . . "did not go far enough".

He quoted figures from what he described as a "leaked document" to back his assertions.

But Dr Smyth said the document was merely a set of overhead slides designed to explain to hospital staff the reasons for the . . . Government's new resource deal . . . Most of the problems highlighted in the slides had been overcome by the new deal . . .

So the Leader of the Opposition got it all wrong, throwing up the lie - [Time expired.]

Mrs SKINNER (North Shore) [4.31]: This motion is a pathetic attempt to divert attention away from a failed health Minister. Let me refer to some of the comments of his political colleagues. I start by quoting a woman whom I respect and admire very much for the efforts she has made on behalf of her members, the State Secretary of the Nurses Association, Sandra Moait. In the Nurses Association magazine The Lamp of October 1996 she referred to negotiations that were undertaken in the steamy period of unrest when rallies were held in every hospital in the State affected by the Minister's so-called resource reallocation - nothing more than budget cuts. I can assure members that all people in the health system felt this way. She stated:

I have made it very clear to the Minister that the general feeling amongst nurses right throughout New South Wales is one of total distrust and uncertainty. Employees in the health system no longer have a belief in the services for which they work. There is a feeling of absolute insecurity about the long-term role of their hospital, workplace or facility as the case may be.

That is the attitude of the people representing the majority of employees in our hospitals. I have attended rallies at which members of the Health and Research Employees Association have spoken, and they have all condemned the Minister. I shall also quote a letter from a relative of a patient who was so badly dealt with by the Minister. Melissa Helmers is the sister of Mark Helmers, who died in hospital after the helicopter retrieval service was unable to find a bed for him. She has given me permission today to quote from the letter written to Charlie Campbell, the husband of Colleen Campbell, who also died after not being able to get an intensive care bed. Melissa Helmers wrote:

The question that our families ask, I guess, is why should patients, the families and the staff have the added pressure of all these political inadequacies to deal with as well. A

Page 5440
hospital is for the sick, so why is it that the sick are being turned away? And Dr Refshauge has the hide to say there are enough beds!

She knows that the Minister has been misleading the House in saying that there are enough beds. She went on to write:

Well basically my family also has another thing in common with yours. And that is we think Dr Refshauge is a "joke" and living in another world. It's about time he opened his eyes and saw reality. Two people have already been put into this dangerous hospital situation. And this still is not enough to make him realise he has no idea how to run our health system, and I think he should get out, and find something else to try his hand at that doesn't involve people's lives.

I agree with Melissa Helmers and the doctors at Liverpool who have said that they will not move into the new hospital building because they will not take part in the Minister's sham, a pretence that extra beds will be opened. I refer to the Minister's answer to a question in which he said that doctors were going to be thrilled to move into that new hospital and that there will be an extra 240 beds. This was on the very day that the doctors and nursing staff announced that they would not move into the new building. I have checked with them since and they have said that they simply will not. They have said that they are insulted - their word - by the Minister's claims in this place, which are lies and which have misled this House.

Members from the Illawarra have been deafening in their silence on health care in the Illawarra. They have refused even to acknowledge that there has been industrial action or disputation in the Illawarra hospital in protest at what the Government has done. Dr Dennis King had told the waiting list committee that the claim by the Minister that he had halved the waiting list was duplicitous and dishonest. Nothing more needs to be said. Finally, I turn to the infection control issue at Royal North Shore Hospital. I find it astonishing that the Minister, by his silence, is conceding that he thinks that people died with aspergillus being, in the words of the doctor in attendance, "a major contributing factor in their death". The Minister thinks that is unworthy of comment. It is a demonstration of the Minister's irresponsible attitude that he has not apologised for not providing funding to enable to airconditioning ducting to be cleaned so that aspergillus is not a threat, as the doctors in the hospital have said it is. [Time expired.]

Ms HALL (Swansea) [4.36]: This is probably the most serious motion a member can speak on, and one that is well and truly overdue. It is most interesting that the Leader of the Opposition and the honourable member for North Shore were not prepared to defend themselves. The Leader of the Opposition knows that he has been lying to the people of this State. He knows that his actions have been misleading Parliament. This also applies to the honourable member for North Shore. They have been caught out many times and they know that their actions are indefensible. Last week in this House the Leader of the Opposition and the honourable member for North Shore made serious allegations about the safety of people in Royal North Shore Hospital. They claimed that 30 patients had died after being infected with bacteria found in the hospital's airconditioning system.

Those claims were found to be false. For that the honourable member for North Shore and the Leader of the Opposition stand condemned. It is no surprise that the claims were found to be false, because the honourable member for North Shore is a specialist in making false claims. Her political career has been based on unsubstantiated claims, as has that of the Leader of the Opposition, who has supported her. Also it has been revealed that the claims made by the Opposition were based on rumours heard from a television journalist who had spoken to an unidentified source. Most members of Parliament would check such rumours. But not the honourable member for North Shore. She refuses to concede that her claims last Thursday are entirely without substance, despite the very public rebuke of her behaviour.

Mr Kerr: On a point of order. The member appears to be reading from copious notes. I think she is entitled to look at a few notes, but not to read them verbatim. I ask that, in view of previous rulings -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member is referring to copious notes.

Ms HALL: I understand why the honourable member for Cronulla took a point of order. The Opposition cannot defend the actions of the honourable member for North Shore or of the Leader of the Opposition. Members opposite are embarrassed, and rightly so. I would be embarrassed if I were one of them and I would take points of order too; that is the only course of action open to them. It is no surprise that the honourable member for North Shore refuses to concede that her claims last Thursday were entirely without substance. That is no surprise to members of the Government because we know that she is not capable of admitting an error; she is capable only of exploiting people and situations and of misleading the people of this State, despite the public rebuke of her behaviour by the Leader of the Opposition as reported in today's Sydney Morning Herald.

One could almost excuse last week's debacle if it were an isolated incident, but it is not. Unfortunately, it is the latest in a long list of humiliating backdowns from the honourable member for North Shore. On 23 March this year she claimed that the Governor of New South Wales, Gordon Samuels, was unaware of changes to the structure of rural health services in New South Wales. That is outrageous. Members opposite suggested that the Carr Government had acted illegally in removing the directors of the former district health service without the authority of the Governor. Each and every
Page 5441
member of this House receives a copy of the Government Gazette, and members on this side of the House read it. Obviously the honourable member for North Shore does not read the Government Gazette.

On 11 March 1996 the Governor, Gordon Samuels, made an order removing all directors of the district health services and appointing administrators to the new area health services. This order was gazetted on 15 March 1996 to take effect on 16 March. All directors of the former district health services were removed from their positions on 16 March in accordance with the gazetted decision of the Governor. The honourable member for North Shore would be well advised to read the Government Gazette, as members on this side do. She sought to scare patients with unsubstantiated claims and has demonstrated her unique ability to publicly denigrate the staff. Her actions and those of the Leader of the Opposition are condemned. [Time expired.]

Dr REFSHAUGE (Marrickville - Deputy Premier, Minister for Health, and Minister for Aboriginal Affairs) [4.41], in reply: I welcome the contributions made by the honourable member for Wallsend and the honourable member for Swansea. Obviously the honourable member for North Shore and the Leader of the Opposition agreed to the censure motion against them because they gave not one word in defence of their actions. They know that they have no defence for lying in this Chamber and they have no defence for scaring patients and their relatives at the Royal North Shore Hospital. The Leader of the Opposition asked why there was an aspergillus growth in the airconditioner outside the haematology unit.

The Leader of the Opposition and the Deputy Leader of the Opposition should know the answer to that question because for seven years under the Liberal-National Government that airconditioning system was never cleaned. That is why the growth was there: because they never had it cleaned. Under this Government the airconditioning system has now been cleaned. Members of the Opposition know full well that they are gaining no points in this debate and that the members on the Opposition front bench have gone to sleep. It is not surprising that the honourable member for North Shore is not in the Chamber. Members who want to make a contribution include the honourable member for Pittwater, who is keen and hungry to provide leadership on that side. He is trying to make sure that his constituents are represented. The honourable member for Dubbo has been a member of this House for many years and has taken an interest in debates. If given the chance he would certainly say what he thought about the Leader of the Opposition, but I assure honourable members that the assessment he regularly makes around the corridors of this place is not positive.

The Leader of the Opposition is not here to defend himself. He gave not one word in his defence during the debate. He knows he lied to the House; he knows he is on the ropes. Today the Premier pointed out that the best chance the Leader of the Opposition had was with his biggest supporters - I presume he has supporters in his party room, but maybe that is not the case - at the Liberal Party conference. However, there was no policy statement, no policy direction, no vision - nothing! The man who purports to be the Leader of the Opposition is marking time while the Liberal Party desperately searches to bring someone into Parliament who can provide leadership and show direction.

The honourable member for North Shore scurried out of the House without defending herself. She believes that what she hears when talking to a nurse in a corridor, walking down the street talking to Chicken Little, or going into a cocktail party and listening to gossip is true. It is not true. Regularly the matters she has brought before the House are shown to be flawed; many statements have been outright lies. Last week, when she tried to vent her spleen on the quality of the staff at the intensive care unit at Lismore Base Hospital the staff stood up for themselves and bit back. The editorial in the Northern Star said it all when it stated:

The Shadow Health Minister Mrs Skinner stuck a toe in the murky water of leaked documentation to score a political point about the Lismore Base Hospital on Thursday.

Suffice to say, you can still hear the sound of dozens of knives emerging from scabbards as the proud troops who toil each day to care for our community hit back.

They did not mince their words - using terms such as "slur", "insulting", "denigrating" and "preposterous" - in the backlash which emerged in defence of the busiest, and some would say the best, regional hospital in New South Wales. The honourable member for North Shore, for some unknown reason, seduced the honourable member for Lismore to jump into this debate. He raised the question about a high-dependency unit that had its funding cut back. That hospital has never had a high-dependency unit! The honourable member for Lismore should have known that, and certainly the honourable member for North Shore should never have put him up to this. In his electorate he undermined the competency of the staff working at that hospital and showed his complete ignorance of what is happening at the hospital.

Lismore hospital has never had a high-dependency unit because the former health Minister, who is now the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, stopped it from going ahead. With a history like that it is no wonder that the Opposition is invisible in New South Wales, except for the lies that it tells. With no policy and no vision it has to resort to lies and deserves the condemnation of this House. [Time expired.]

Page 5442

Question - That the words stand - put.

The House divided.

Ms Allan Mr Martin
Mr Amery Ms Meagher
Mr Anderson Mr Mills
Ms Andrews Ms Moore
Mr Aquilina Mr Moss
Mrs Beamer Mr Nagle
Mr Clough Mr Neilly
Mr Crittenden Ms Nori
Mr Debus Mr E. T. Page
Mr Face Mr Price
Mr Gaudry Dr Refshauge
Mr Gibson Mr Rogan
Mrs Grusovin Mr Rumble
Ms Hall Mr Scully
Mr Harrison Mr Shedden
Ms Harrison Mr Stewart
Mr Iemma Mr Sullivan
Mr Knight Mr Tripodi
Mr Knowles Mr Watkins
Mr Langton Mr Whelan
Mrs Lo Po' Mr Woods
Mr Lynch Mr Yeadon
Dr Macdonald
Mr McBride Tellers,
Mr McManus Mr Beckroge
Mr Markham Mr Thompson

Mr Armstrong Mr O'Farrell
Mr Beck Mr D. L. Page
Mr Blackmore Mr Peacocke
Mr Brogden Mr Phillips
Mr Chappell Mr Photios
Mr Cochran Mr Richardson
Mr Collins Mr Rixon
Mr Cruickshank Mr Rozzoli
Mr Debnam Mr Schipp
Mr Downy Mr Schultz
Mr Ellis Ms Seaton
Ms Ficarra Mrs Skinner
Mr Fraser Mr Slack-Smith
Mr Glachan Mr Smith
Mr Hartcher Mr Souris
Mr Hazzard Mr Tink
Mr Humpherson Mr J. H. Turner
Dr Kernohan Mr R. W. Turner
Mr Kinross Mr Windsor
Mr MacCarthy Tellers,
Mr Merton Mr Jeffery
Mr O'Doherty Mr Kerr

Mr Carr Mrs Chikarovski
Mr Hunter Mr Small

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Amendment negatived.

Question - That the motion be agreed to - put.

The House divided.

Ms Allan Mr Martin
Mr Amery Ms Meagher
Mr Anderson Mr Mills
Ms Andrews Ms Moore
Mr Aquilina Mr Moss
Mrs Beamer Mr Nagle
Mr Clough Mr Neilly
Mr Crittenden Ms Nori
Mr Debus Mr E. T. Page
Mr Face Mr Price
Mr Gaudry Dr Refshauge
Mr Gibson Mr Rogan
Mrs Grusovin Mr Rumble
Ms Hall Mr Scully
Mr Harrison Mr Shedden
Ms Harrison Mr Stewart
Mr Iemma Mr Sullivan
Mr Knight Mr Tripodi
Mr Knowles Mr Watkins
Mr Langton Mr Whelan
Mrs Lo Po' Mr Woods
Mr Lynch Mr Yeadon
Dr Macdonald
Mr McBride Tellers,
Mr McManus Mr Beckroge
Mr Markham Mr Thompson

Mr Armstrong Mr O'Farrell
Mr Beck Mr D. L. Page
Mr Blackmore Mr Peacocke
Mr Brogden Mr Phillips
Mr Chappell Mr Photios
Mr Cochran Mr Richardson
Mr Collins Mr Rixon
Mr Cruickshank Mr Rozzoli
Mr Debnam Mr Schipp
Mr Downy Mr Schultz
Mr Ellis Ms Seaton
Ms Ficarra Mrs Skinner
Mr Fraser Mr Slack-Smith
Mr Glachan Mr Smith
Mr Hartcher Mr Souris
Mr Hazzard Mr Tink
Mr Humpherson Mr J. H. Turner
Dr Kernohan Mr R. W. Turner
Mr Kinross Mr Windsor
Mr MacCarthy Tellers,
Mr Merton Mr Jeffery
Mr O'Doherty Mr Kerr

Mr Carr Mrs Chikarovski
Mr Hunter Mr Small

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Motion agreed to.

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